Seth Thomas Pocket Watch Dials
In order to fully and accurately document and communicate a detailed description of the pocket watches that we encounter; whether as a watchmaker, an historian or in our collections, we need to know the standard language and part numbers used by the manufacturers of our watches. The purpose of this article is to provide clear, complete, and easy-to-use charts listing and describing original Seth Thomas pocket watch dials by their part numbers so that we can include that information clearly in our personal or professional records as we care for these venerable historic artifacts. The new chart several pages below shows the specifications for most standard Seth Thomas grade pocket watch dials. Because of the large quantity manufactured for Sears, Roebuck & Co, their “Century” dials are also described. Most of the dials for private labels pocket watches such as Republic, Corona Watch Co., Colonial, Waldorf, Adonis, etc. are not provided with part numbers on the old chart shown on this page; but some are recognized, in the notes on dials, as having been manufactured by Seth Thomas. It is interesting to note the references to “snug” dials used on 6s and the 18sX16s dials for use in “snug cases”. This information was extracted from the 1904 Illustrated Price List, No 648, Seth Thomas Watch Movements, Trade Price List, October 15, 1904 shown below. In presenting this information on the new charts the use of abbreviations and hashmarks was avoided in order to provide greater clarity, and to reduce errors in interpreting the information. Please feel free to copy, print, and use the new charts in your daily practice. Photographs of dials not listed on the old or the new charts will also be presented in this section as they are of historical significance and interest to many people.
Seth Thomas pocket watch dials present with an appealing combination of elegance and practicality that compliments the beautiful engraving and high degree of craftsmanship and engineering genius that went into the production of Seth Thomas pocket watch mechanisms.
The importance of making historical background information freely available to all who have interest in the roots of the American clock and watch industry cannot be overstated. Information that is not freely shared not only confounds the research of present day horologists; but will likely be forever lost to the future generations of horologists.
The Pocket Watch Database, serving as a collective repository for the studies and research of many, is playing the greatest role in collecting, organizing, consolidating, and freely disseminating invaluable information to the horological community and the public at large.
It is important to remember that despite the benefits from all of the technological advances since the Gilded Age when many of our pocket watches of interest were manufactured; we must retain great respect for the technology, methods, and terminology of those times in order to fully appreciate the artifacts that we are attempting to preserve.
These are some definitions and diagrams to clarify vocabulary and terms commonly used in the description and discussion of pocket watch dials:
Parts of the Pocket Watch Dial
The marginal minutes track may display black, red, or blue numerals at 5-minute or 1-minute intervals or not at all.
The minute track may be comprised of a ring, hash marks, or dots.
The hour track may represent the hours in Roman Numerals or Arabic Numerals.
The seconds bit may be sunk, pressed, flat, or it may be missing.
Dial Signature Font Styles commonly used on Seth Thomas pocket watches as seen on the Pocket Watch Database:
Much can be learned about this topic by browsing the Seth Thomas Watch Company Image Gallery on the Pocket Watch Database, and reading the various movement markings, dial types and signatures, and observing the styles of hands associated with each Seth Thomas pocket watch. There is also a Seth Thomas Private Labels Gallery available for viewing on the Pocket Watch Database. It is a great benefit to be able to freely observe a large collection of specimens, especially in various stages and degrees of restoration. The Pocket Watch Database plays the greatest role in collecting , organizing and disseminating this invaluable horological information.
Are You Double Sunk, Single Sunk, Double Pressed, Single Pressed, or Flat?
A pocket watch dial may be described as “Double Sunk” (often abbreviated DS) or “Double Cut” if the surface has been terraced by means of cutting and soldering pieces of varying thicknesses together prior to enameling and painting the numerals and other features onto the dial. This creates a dial with three distinct surface levels.
“Single Sunk” or “Cut Seconds” refers to a dial where only the seconds bit is terraced below the rest of the surface of the dial by means of cutting and soldering pieces of different thicknesses together prior to enameling and painting.
“Pressed Seconds” is another way of obtaining a terraced appearance similar to single sunk or cut seconds without cutting and soldering the dial. Instead it is achieved by stamping the seconds bit into the copper disk prior to enameling and painting.
“Double Pressed” or “Imitation Double Sunk” is similar to Pressed Seconds; but instead of just stamping the seconds bit into the copper disk, another larger area is also stamped to an intermediate depth prior to the enameling process.
“Flat” dials have neither pressed seconds, or cut seconds, and are not double sunk or double pressed. They are just flat.
Dial Feet
Dial feet are the copper wires that project from the rear of the dial in a pattern that matches the ports on the pillar plate, which the feet will penetrate in order to stabilize the position of the dial. The locations of the dial feet are reported in terms of the number of minutes on the minute ring as if the feet projected through to the front of the dial as well as the back. The vast majority of Seth Thomas dials and movements utilize three dial feet. Some of the older movements only utilized two; but they were in the same position as two of the standard three feet.
18-size dials have feet at 13.0 minutes, 34.2 minutes, and 45.2 minutes for Models 1 – 12.
18-size dials have feet at 13.0 minutes, NONE, and 45.2 minutes if they are two-footed.
18-size dials have feet at 13.0 minutes, 34.1 minutes, and 45.0 minutes for Model 13.
16-size dials have feet at 13.0 minutes, 35.2 minutes, and 45.0 minutes for Model 21.
12-size dials have feet at 2.0 minutes, 21.8 minutes, and 41.0 minutes for Model 22.
12-size dials have feet at 12.2 minutes, 34.8 minutes, and 55.0 minutes for Model 23.
6-size Hunting dials have feet at 17.2 minutes, 37.2 minutes, 56.3 minutes for Models 14 – 19.
6-size Open-face dials have feet at 2.0 minutes, 22.0 minutes, and 41.0 minutes for Model 24.
0-size dials have feet at 18.2 minutes, 38.0 minutes, and 53.0 minutes for Model 20.These dial feet locations were published in “American Pocket Watches” by Roy Ehrhardt & William “Bill” Meggers, Revised 1999.
Use CAUTION if straightening or adjusting dial feet as they are integrated into the enamel surface of the dial. Moving or flexing them can cause sudden and catastrophic damage to the dial surface. “Adjusting” can include over-tightening the dial foot screws. Much of the cratering damage that we see on antique enamel dials is located directly above the positions of the dial feet.
DIAL REMOVAL
Dial removal accomplished by slightly retracting the dial foot screws found on the outer perimeter of the pillar plate. On Seth Thomas pocket watches there are usually three; but sometimes only two, dial foot screws. On this 18-size Seth Thomas pocket watch one dial foot screw is located next to the winding port, another is adjacent to the balance wheel, and the third is located adjacent to the escape wheel.
A Simple Dial Foot Location Tool
Do you have the correct replacement dial in your kit for the vintage pocket watch that you’re considering buying despite its present dial being cracked and cratered or possibly missing? Are you SURE?
The dials that you have in stock may have the desired signature, numeral set, minute track and marginals; but sorting through a stock of vintage dials can be confusing and frustrating enough when considering the proper size, the changes in style at different eras of production, the correct signature if it’s a private label or named grade; and if the manufacturer used different dial feet locations within the same size and model of movements it could make you decide to call it a day and wait to purchase a movement that already has a viable, appropriate dial installed.
Few people are very good at accurately visualizing the minute track in reverse while looking at the dial feet on the back of an enamel pocket watch dial. At some point I decided to just make a cheap, simple tool to avoid that particular brand of anxiety in my time spent with Seth Thomas pocket watches. I would like to share the tool with you; so that you can use it with whichever brands of pocket watches you enjoy exploring.
I found an image of a blank dial online and scaled it to accommodate an 18-size pocket watch dial in its center area between the markings in the minute track.
I used a red colored pencil to connect the 0 minutes mark to the 30 minutes mark and the 15 minutes mark to the 45 minutes mark. I also added red 5-minute marginals outside of the minute track counting upwards counter-clockwise so that the marks would correspond with the minutes marked on the front of the dial when it is lying face down. With any common size of pocket watch dial lying face down on the tool I just need to center the red “X” in the center hole and rotate the dial until a point on the lower half of the vertical red line is visible through the hole in the seconds bit. I only collect Seth Thomas pocket watches; so it was possible to also include descriptions on the tool of where the dial feet are located for each Seth Thomas pocket watch dial size and orientation, open-face or hunting. The posted image of the tool should be the right size to print directly on 8.5 X 11 (letter size) paper. I’m not sure how the scaling will work for our friends and readers outside of the U.S.A. using A4 paper. I frequently faced that dilemma during my three-year stay in China where everything was also metric. I’m sure that you’re much more adept at converting documents than I ever was. After printing the tool out, lamination will make it a more permanent addition to your toolbox.
Seth Thomas Pocket Watch Dial Sizes
When measuring a pocket watch, it is important that you measure the pocket watch movement (mechanism) without including the size of the pocket watch case. It is equally important that your measurement is of the “pillar plate”, which is beneath the watch’s dial and hands. You should not be measuring the “top plate”, which has the engraved patterns and movement markings, and where you can often see gears, wheels, screws, and springs. The top plate is usually a couple of sizes smaller than the pillar plate; so you cannot get an accurate reading by measuring there.
As with measuring anything else, the measurement needs to be expressed and communicated in the relevant measurement scale. In some regions of the world millimeters and lignes have been the standard units of measure for pocket watches. Since this article is providing information about American-made pocket watches; the correct system of measurement to use would be the American Movements Sizes scale.
The American Movements Sizes scale is based upon the Lancashire Guage where a small measurement (1/30 of an inch) is added to the basing figure of one inch to establish the actual size of the next larger named size; so the expressed sizes are additive, not relative, to one another. An 18-size pocket watch is not three times as large as a 6-size pocket watch. It is twelve units (1/30”) larger. The various established watch sizes are expressed as a number hyphenated with the letter “s” after it, with “s” standing for “size”. The smaller numbers represent a smaller watch than the larger numbers. Sizes below 0-size are expressed as 3/0-size, 6/0-size, and so forth all the way down to 21/0-size.
Fortunately; Seth Thomas produced watches in only five sizes. The photo below shows those five sizes.
In “addition” to these sizes, 18-s, 16-s, 12-s, 6-s, and 0-s; Seth Thomas manufactured some “compact” models and some “snug” models.
Some of the 6-size pocket watch movements were manufactured with a longer setting lever, enabling them to accept the same size dial as is used on a 12-size watch. The later 6-size pendant set movements did not need to be modified at all to accept the larger dial. These watches are referred to as 12X6 movements by collectors and watchmakers. They were marketed to the public as thinner, less bulky 12-size pocket watches. Most pocket watch dials are slightly smaller than the pillar plate that they rest upon to reduce chipping and breakage of the enamel dial; so a dial for many 12-size watches measures only about 10-s. The dial on the 12X6 movements are 10-s, just like the 12-size movements; but they protrude past the 6-size pillar plate. Specially adapted 12-size watch cases are required to accommodate the 12X6 movements which are really just 6-size movements with a longer setting lever to extend beyond the edge of the oversized dial. The resulting benefit of the 12X6 movement is really the ability to sell the 6-size watch in a somewhat compact 12-size watch case to people who don’t want to read the smaller 6-size watch dial.
You can notice in some advertisements for the Centennial grade watches that a “4-size” watch is listed. In other literature you can notice that a 6-size “snug dial” is referenced. These two phrases are connected in that the Seth Thomas “4-size” pocket watch is really their 6-size pocket watch with a “snug dial” and a “snug case”. The snug dial is the same size as other 6-size dials; but its painted features are moved closer to the center, away from the perimeter of the dial, and its seconds bit is smaller. The watch movement with the “snug dial” is then placed into a slightly scaled down 6-size watch case with a smaller exterior dimension, a smaller bezel opening, and a smaller seconds hand; making the watch appear to be a true 4-size watch.
This is a 6-size Seth Thomas Lever Set Model 18 private label “Republic U.S.A.” movement that was manufactured with a longer setting lever to accommodate a 12X6 dial and a compact 12-size pocket watch case. You can see the over-sized dial extending beyond the diameter of the pillar plate in the center photograph. You can easily see the setting lever extending beyond the perimeter of the pillar plate in its closed position, and its extended reach in the open position in two photographs at the right hand end of the block.
This illustration appeared on page 803 of the 1910 Fall edition of the Sears, Roebuck & Company Catalog to help customers visualize the different pocket watch sizes that they could purchase [*30] .
A New Seth Thomas Pocket Watch Dial Chart
Seth Thomas Pocket Watch Dials Illustrated
6-size
1201
1202
1203
1204
1205
1206
1212
1213
1214
No Number
18-size
24-Hour Dials
Century Grade Dials
It was stated in the original 1904 Seth Thomas Dials Chart that “All Century Grade Dials Have Black Marginal Figures”. That was true at the time; but with the introduction of the open-face 6-size Centennial Model 24 Century U.S.A. movements were produced with a dial sporting no marginal figures. One could argue that all Model 24 movements are Centennial grade. The 1913 Centennial Edition Price List summarizes the product line as “Seth Thomas “Centennial” open-face watches. 7-Jewel High-Grade Movements. Red Marginal Dials”. The Model 23 Century U.S.A. doesn’t fit that description, and there is an open-face Model 24 private label Republic U.S.A. in my collection with black marginals, and a seconds bit, on the dial, also contradicting that summary. It is possible that the Model 24 Century U.S.A. movements were manufactured as special commemorative for the Centennial celebration. After all; in 1913 they would not have been produced for Sears, Roebuck & Company, as their sale of Century movements was gradually phased out starting in the Fall of 1901 with the introduction of the Edgemere line and Century was gone in the 1902 Fall catalog. Century movements were then seen in the catalogs of A.C. Becken, N. Shure Company, John M. Smyth Company, Holsman & Alter, and W.H. Lasselle.
Fancy Dials
Seth Thomas Private Label Pocket Watch Dials
The Seth Thomas Watch Company did not leave us with Item Numbers for all of the dials that they produced. These are the un-numbered dials from some of the most common Named Grade and Private Label pocket watches that Seth Thomas produced.
